RJ

R. J. Grigaitis, O.F.S.

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A Debate on the Roman Catholic Religion

PREFACE.

IT has been judged expedient to insert, by way of preface to the following Controversy, the subjoined notice, from a paper published in Cincinnati, by Protestant proprietors, of the circumstances under which the debate originated. We regret that it is not in our power, at the same time, to present to the public the remarks of Bishop Purcell, in the College of Teachers, to which exception was so wantonly taken by Mr. Campbell. But we have not now before us a file of the Cincinnati Catholic Telegraph, in which they originally appeared, or of the Cincinnati Gazette, into which they were subsequently copied. The annexed account, however, which is from the Cincinnati Gazette of the 7th of February, 1836, will, it is thought, be sufficient to satisfy the curiosity of readers generally. They who desire more ample information on the subject will consult the periodicals named, or the "Transactions of the College of Teachers" for the year 1836, in which the discourses of Bishop Purcell, Dr. Joshua Wilson, and Mr. Campbell have been published.

"Some few years ago, a manufactory of public opinion was got up 'down, East,' the object of which was to put Catholics back to their old position. This manufactory manufactured a mob to burn a Convent, and the coinage of various books, which a man could not read in the presence of his daughters. Our city of Cincinnati is fast becoming a manufacturing city; consequently this Eastern manufactory notion respecting Catholics began to gain foothold, and was making headway amongst us. In this state of things, an occasion was soon found for going to work.

"There is one Alexander Campbell, of considerable notoriety in this country, of no mean capacity—learned, self-confident, and indefatigable. This gentleman, as we have under his own hand, in Saturday's Gazette, took upon himself many years ago, 'to unite all Protestant Christians as one great bond of union, as Catholic, as Protestantism.' Such an undertaking is abundant proof of the undertaker's self-confidence. It is well known that Mr. Campbell labored in this great work with assiduity. He was himself the operative manufacturer. He knew his tools, kept them in excellent order and in constant use—but he produced no such 'union' as he was seeking to manufacture. On the contrary, his efforts very soon manufactured disunion in the Baptist church, of which he was a member. And then, again, his next manufacture was an additional Protestant sect, of which he was the founder and head. Like all ardent projectors, he was nothing discouraged. His fancy that, he was to become the great 'MILLENNIAL HARBINGER,' for effecting his contemplated Protestant 'grand bond of union,' remained apparently as vivid and as sanguine as it was when he commenced his work. But dissatisfaction arose in the minds of others. His works were judged by their fruits, and these were esteemed bitter; sowing discords among Protestant churches, instead of producing the healings of union. Most Protestants of distinction and circumspection avoided continuing to give him consequence, by engaging in controversy with him; but he found a resource, for the moment, in the famous Owen, of Lanark, with whom he got a tilting match here, in Cincinnati, the fame of which did not endure long. For some time past, he has been rather out of the world, and had even been criss-crossed by the two 'Journals' of Cincinnati. Still, however, he retained amongst us a number of ardent, respectable supporters, so that a visit to Cincinnati was quite a matter of course.

"Opportunely, the College of Teachers met in October last, of which the Catholic Bishop was a member, and Mr. Campbell also. Here, with his usual tact, he manufactured an occasion for exhibiting once more his manufacturing powers. Mr. Campbell advanced certain positions and employed certain arguments that were used to furnish materials for commencing a manufacturing of public opinion, hereabouts; not on the 'union of all Protestant Christians,' but on the errors and mischief of 'Romanism!' The most approved method of the day was resorted to. Some sixty citizens unite together to put the work in motion. Mr. Campbell is requested to enforce and enlarge, in a public discussion, his 'exposure and Illustrations of the absurd claims and usages of the Roman Catholic Church,' as announced in six propositions in a public meeting. Mr. Campbell accedes, in due form, and writes a newspaper column, discussing the conduct of Bishop Purcell, in this matter, and discussing himself and his own doings, and then enlarging on what he intended to do. His letter also set forth nine specifications, of what he meant to take in hand, and in respect to which, of course, he proposed to manufacture a public opinion.

"This correspondence was brought to the Gazette office for publication. I thought I perceived its drift and consequences. Mr. Campbell would be got before the public as the champion of Protestantism. He expected to obtain reputation as 'defender of the faith,' upon which to carry on his further operations. Its effects, here, would be to exasperate existing prejudices— to supply ALIMENT for new antipathies and excitements, to provoke individual controversies, and thus disturb the harmony of the community, with no possibility of benefit to anybody but Mr. Campbell himself. The publication of the correspondence was objected to by me, on these grounds. And, in addition, on the ground that the nine propositions to he discussed were couched in terms unnecessarily and offensively opprobrious."

In the same paper, of the 15th of December previous, the following letter of Bishop Purcell appeared in answer to a challenge from Mr. Campbell to a public discussion:

"MR. EDITOR: In a communication over the signature of A. Campbell, in Friday morning's Gazette, that gentleman is made to say, 'We hope that our Roman Catholic friends, who have avowed their regard for free discussion, and who have so boldly and wantonly impugned Protestant principles, will (then and there) be in readiness to sustain their allegata, or to dispute the propositions we have submitted to their consideration.'

"Now, as Mr. Campbell modestly declines the epithet Reverend in connection with his name, and yet inconsistently assumes the proud title of WE, I presume, from recent circumstances to which he alludes, that I may consider myself, without any suspicion of vanity, to be the humble individual whom he honors with a pluralization in the word 'friends.' So far, then, if I may begin this very grave business with a laugh, we are both even, though each of us is an odd number!

"But, sir, I deny that I have 'boldly and wantonly impugned Protestant principles.' It is all t'other way, Mr. Editor, and as I desire that the public should be rightly informed on this subject, I proceed at once to the proof.

"Some time past, as long ago as last February, be it noted, I received through the Post Office a copy of the February number of the 'Christian Preacher,' edited by D. S. Burnet, Cincinnati. On the wrapper were conspicuously pencilled the words, 'See page 48.' I lost no time in making the reference, and on the page indicated read as follows: ' WHO WILL TRY?' Mr. Alexander Campbell, in Harbinger, Vol. VII., No. 3, declares his willingness to meet any respectable friend of the Pope, who will engage to defend the claims of 'his holiness,' with either the pen or the tongue.

"Not choosing to disturb the peace of the religious community, by stirring up the bitter waters of controversy, I took no further notice of this 'bold and wanton' challenge.

"In the April number of the same periodical, I was again and similarly referred to another 'bold and wanton' challenge from Mr. A. Campbell, which, as a fair specimen of the author's sense and ministerial courtesy, I shall submit to the candid judgment of my fellow-citizens. I am confident that every unprejudiced reader will conclude, after its perusal, that Mr. Campbell is himself the 'bold and wanton' aggressor, which he has most disingenuously, and without one particle of Christian truth or fairness, labored to make me appear before the people of Cincinnati—amongst whom, I trust, I have not one enemy. If I have, unconsciously, such a misfortune, I am sure I have not deserved it.

MR. CAMPBELL AND THE PAPISTS.

'We have just room enough to insert the extract from the March Hardinger below. It is about the last half of Mr. C.'s reply to the communication of "W. A.," a Romanist of Springfield, Ill. We ask again, who will try to sustain the claims of the Pope and Popery?'—Editor of the Preacher.

'But as the gentleman has not attempted (and as it is presumed no man will fairly attempt) to show either scriptural or logical discrepancy in my essay alluded to, I will not again repeat what I have written on the conversation at Caesarea Philippi. That view of the passage I stand ready to sustain against the Pope himself, or any Bishop under his jurisdiction, in the old world or new. They shall have as much antiquity as they please, and as many of the traditions of the Apostolic Fathers as they can hang upon any two of the longest pins in St. Peter's Church—provided only these traditions do not fairly and flatly contradict each other, and both Peter and Paul into the bargain. It is high time that the American people should be enlightened upon this subject, and every drop of oil in my lamp is at their service whenever a trustworthy son of the modern St. Peter appears ready for the discussion.

'If I can prove to any Jew that Jesus of Nazareth is the true Messiah—if I can prove to any sceptic, Greek or Roman, French or English philosopher, that he is the Son of God, and the only Saviour of the world, and the author of eternal salvation to all who obey him—then can I prove to any impartial jury that the Pope of Rome is "the man of sin" foretold by Paul, and "the son of perdition," whose ruin is predicted by St. John.

'But I must have a man, a full-grown man, with whom to discuss the proposition submitted, and one in whose judgment the Romanists themselves, inferior clergy and people, have confidence. I will contend with him by one of two weapons—he may choose—the tongue or the pen.'

"With respect to Mr. Campbell's cartel, I have only to say, that, however low of stature, my trust is strong in God and in the might of His truth, that, when the hour of trial comes, I shall be found more than a match for this vaunting Goliah.

"JOHN B. PURCELL,
"Bishop of Cincinnati."

THE CONTROVERSY.

The discussion between the Rt. Rev. Bishop Purcell and Mr. Alexander Campbell terminated on Saturday at noon, after eight days' continuance. The interest which it awakened in the public mind continued unabated to the last moment, and the audience was so large that fears were frequently expressed respecting the solidity of the edifice. We repeat what we said last week, that a more propitious event for Catholics could not have occurred. We will not give expression to what we feel, nor will we exhibit any exultation regarding the result, for fear that our testimony maybe considered interested; but our readers will find below the evidence of the daily press of this city, and we cheerfully refer them to their unbiased declarations.

(From the Daily Gazette.)
"A BOTTLE OF TEARS.

"The fact that Mr. Campbell opened the grand debate here, by a notice of the Gazette, has already been mentioned. That notice is thus written out in the reports of the Cross and Baptist Journal:

'I have come here to-day in defence of the principles of Protestantism—not as the partisan of a sect. Much pains have been taken to produce the impression that I am the assailant. The Gazette of this city has called this discussion "a war on the Catholics." It is worthy of note that whenever Catholicism is likely to suffer, the conductor of the Gazette has a bottle of tears to shed. Whether these tears are religious or political, I cannot tell.'

"'Whenever Catholicism is LIKELY TO SUFFER, the conductor of the Gazette has a bottle of tears to shed.' 'LIKELY TO SUFFER!' There is modesty for you! Mr. Campbell is about to make Catholicism 'SUFFER;' whereupon, in terror and apprehension, as Mr. Campbell seems to have imagined, of his mighty Brian De Bois Gilbert exploits, the conductor of the Gazette uncorked a bottle of tears, and poured forth his griefs in anticipation. Alas! for Mr. Campbell's vainglory! None who bottled up tears for that occasion found any reason to uncork their bottles. Catholicism was little put to the torture. She could not truly say, 'my sufferings IS intolerable.' Mr. Campbell's 'defence of Protestantism' has turned out to be a very considerable failure, so far as rendering Catholicism odious was a part of his effort. Most of those who heard the debate, with the least prejudice, think better of Catholics than they had previously thought. If any have unbottled their store of tears, I suspect it is some of those who called Mr. Campbell to this discussion."

(From the same.)
"THE GRAND DEBATE.

"This 'grand, affair' closed on Saturday. Of the result, there seems to be but one general opinion—Mr. Campbell did Catholicism no injury. His effort was a grand failure. Alas for Protestantism! if she stood upon Mr. Campbell's shield and buckler. Both the combatants talked in the dead languages. I claim to be equally pedantic. And of Mr. Campbell's defence of Protestantism, I say:

'Non tali auxilio, nec defensoribus istis, Tempus eget.'

"No, indeed! Mr. Campbell has made it manifest that he is not the man required by the times to make Catholicism 'suffer.' The suffering, if any, is on the part of himself and of his employers. 'We leave them alone in their glory.'"

(From the Whig.)
"THE DEBATE.

"The debate (on the subject of the correctness of the Roman Catholic Doctrine) between Mr. Alexander Campbell and Bishop Purcell, ends to-day. We understand that, thus far, it has created a vast deal of interest, and that large audiences of both sexes have been daily in attendance. We regret very much that we have been prevented by indisposition from hearing any portion of it. We have, however, heard many speak of it (none of whom have been Catholics), and the opinion seems to be universal that Mr. Campbell has been 'pretty well until up.¦ And not only so, but so successful have been the Bishop's efforts, that he has not only completely succeeded in wiping away the prejudices against Catholicism, but has well nigh converted to his faith a large portion of his Protestant auditors. We have not heard a dissenting voice to the opinion that Mr. Campbell has utterly failed in establishing a single one of the original objections to the Catholic Doctrine which he set out to prove.

"As we have no tincture of Catholicism in our composition, the foregoing remarks cannot be supposed to have emanated from any bias or partiality towards it. We speak the sentiments of others who have attended the debate, many of whom went there, in the first instance, with violent prejudices against the Catholics and their doctrine."

(From the Republican.)
"THE CONTROVERSY.

"We have been repeatedly asked, why we have not noticed the 'grand debate,' as our neighbor of the Gazette calls it, between Mr. Campbell, the great exterminator of Catholicism, and every other ism but his own selfism, and Bishop Purcell, which for a week past has engrossed the attention of our citizens, to the exclusion almost of every other subject. We could assign many excellent reasons why we have not followed the example of the editor of the Gazette, and reported the progress, from day to day, of this unprofitable controversy. The best reason, however, which we could possibly advance is that furnished by the Gazette, viz.: That there was nothing to report—that seven days have been consumed in argument, and that not a single point has yet been established. And that the modern Don Quixote, who set out with a flourish of trumpets, with the vain boast of being able to demolish the Catholic religion, has failed to accomplish his threat, and retires from the contest pretty much after the manner of the sorry knight of La Mancha, from his assault upon the windmill—crippled and discomfited. We have no sectarian prejudices: we have been brought up in reverence of the principles of Christianity as inculcated by the Bible, without regard to any particular rite or form of worship. We have been taught to believe that charity and faith constitute the foundation or keystone to true Christianity ; and that, without them, there can be no genuine religion. We have been taught to hold in utter contempt all narrow-mindedness and bigotry among professors of Christianity as at variance with the liberal doctrines of our Saviour, who enjoined upon his followers to 'do unto others as they would wish to be done by,' and proclaimed 'good-will to all men.' And we have ever looked upon religious persecution as the most odious of all persecutions, no matter from what source it emanates, or against what sect it is brought to bear. It may be presumed, therefore, that we have no approbation to bestow upon the illiberal policy of those who, like Mr. Campbell, have entered upon a crusade against the Catholic religion to gratify their malice or a vain desire for distinction; or commiseration to award, if, in their attempts to demolish the Catholics, they get demolished themselves."

(From the Cincinnati Daily Gazette.)
"THE GRAND DEBATE.

"This exciting commotion was concluded on Saturday, January 21st, after an eight-day discussion, of about four hours each day. The interest and the audience continued to increase until it became the chief topic of conversation in the city. The better opinion is, that Protestantism gained nothing in the contest, and that Catholicism suffered nothing. Mr. Campbell's notion expressed, at the commencement, that an apprehension of approaching inflictions upon the Catholics had caused the shedding of some bottled tears, turned out to be a conception of his own self confidence, which he failed to realize. A new feeling favorable to Catholicism has been created in the minds of many by the discussion. It may be thus explained:

"For some two or three years, incessant efforts have been made to cast odium upon the Catholics, especially upon their clergy. This has been particularly the casein Boston, in Xe\v- York, and Cincinnati. An inundation of books, various and successive, have been poured upon the country, calculated to make an impression that the Catholic convents were receptacles of the most flagitious enormities. The bald grossness of these fabrications, upon any other subject, would have been generally denounced as too indecent, for countenance in an intelligent community. Even an allusion to their contents, in a newspaper, is trenching upon propriety. We had ' SECKKTS OF FEMALE CONVENTS DISCLOSED/ Wo had Rebecca Reed's narration of the Ursuline Convent, burnt down by Protestant niobbish violence. We had Maria Monk's monstrosities at Montreal. All these abominations have been greedily received by many in this community have been read and credited, so as to impress the reader with the belief that Catholicism was the monster they represented it to be. Refutation was out of the question ; it would not be listened to if offered. Nay, to question the narrations \vas held to associate the questioner with the Catholics, and brand him as a participator in their crimes. The Protestant pulpits in Cincinnati, or most of them, frequently presented Catholicism in unfavorable lights. Family conversations were of the same tendency. There was, iu fact, an incessant and strong current running in one direction unfavorable to Catholicism. In this state of things, Protestantism, apparently, had nothing to apprehend in Cincinnati. She had no occasion for a champion. But a tilting gladiator, on the field of religious debate, came among us, and an occasion was contrived, by an inconsiderate few, to invite him to nn exposition of Catholicism. Hence tin's debate. Through it tho Catholics have been heard, by hundreds, if not thousands, of Protestants, who came to witness the prostration of the whole fabric, and all its institutions and adherents, and who came to believe the worst that could be said of them. Many of these received new impressions. They heard the Bishop's exposition of the points of exception, and they learned that they had believed much that was disputed, and had condemned much that was capable of plausible explanation. They ascertained that Mr. Campbell was often at fault in his assertions and in his arguments. They saw him sometimes nonplussed, and often hard pressed. Thus did they come to understand that there was a fair side as well as foul one for Catholicism, and herein have the Catholics gained in something, whilst they have suffered in nothing.

" I do not regard this Catholic gain as Protestant loss. I honor Protestantism too much to believe she can be injured by the dispersion of prejudice, or by the discomfiture of presumptuous vindicators. And for this reason it is that I have reprehended the war waged against the Catholics. It is, in fact, a war // p'////v.>w<>tf not defensive, whether the operator be Rebecca Reed, Maria Monk, or Alexander Campbell ; whether it be waged under color of defending Protestantism, or of checking the advance of Catholicism ; and it is a war as unwise, in its, commencement and in its continuance, as it has been discreditable in most of the agents and the weapons it has employed.

" One of the most gratifying results of this controversy is, the interchange of good feeling and Christian regard which it elicited from Catholic and Protestant. \Ve were delighted to see and hear the congratulations which parsed between men hitherto unfortunately esti'anged. The mists of prejudice have been dispersed, and we all were happy to behold each other in the pure light of love, benevolence, and charity. It was gratifying to observe the warmth and sincerity with which Bishop Purcell was greeted by his Protestant fellow-citizens, and we feel assured that he responded in the fulness of his heart to their kind felicitations upon the virtuous triumph which he has achieved."

It is thought unnecessary to add to these extracts the testimony of other periodicals to the same effect.

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